Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:03 am
Papa Smurf has a @#$%ing beard! They're mammals!
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:48 am Posts: 1107 Location: Bayonne, New Jersey
At the point when Mongo said "He wrote Long Halloween" this came to mind
I was a bit surprised by the fact that Mongo was pretty much the deciding factor on this one (again). I know Beeslo doesn't follow DC, but I expected Link to have at least heard of how terrible Robinson's JLA run has been. I'm glad he's not attached to any of the relaunch titles. You all pretty much summed up how everyone feels about Loeb: he was great but when his son died he just lost that spark and hasn't completely recovered yet.
On a side note about Heroes: Tim Sale was also a big part of the show and contributed to all of the art in the first season, but he left during the strike.
Not surprised to hear that Beeslo is done with the week to week collecting. But didn't you stop like a year ago though? Or at least cut back in a huge way? I'm all for the idea of having someone focus on indy titles, but if each of you tackle a different branch of comics, how are discussions going to stay interesting when none of you are all reading the same book(s)? Say for instance come this fall there's most likely going to be a show about DC post relaunch and Marvel post Fear Itself/X-Men relaunch; is it going to be just one person talking for a third of the show while the other two interject with "ohh that's cool/lame". Not to sound corny, but I do genuinely enjoy the dichotomy the three of you have going and I just don't want it to suffer for the sake of keeping the show a (mostly) comic book podcast. What I'm trying to say is: if you have to change things up for the better, do it.
Oh and what ever happened to that Mongo vs Food challenge in Texas and the Beeslo Superman 64 punishment hmmmm?
_________________ Sheep Cannon: (noun) A cannon discreetly disguised as a harmless sheep. Usage: See issue Deadpool #16: Assignment in Greece
Mongo wrote:
I hate you Grant Morrison, your package, and everything about you.
Oh and what ever happened to that Mongo vs Food challenge in Texas and the Beeslo Superman 64 punishment hmmmm?
Well, spoilers, Mongo didn't die. However, that video along with some other Texas stuff will be out once we finish up this Vs. stuff, we've delayed it for so long we just want to be done with it.
As for Beeslo abandoning the "superhero" world I don't think he FULLY is, just a majority of the stuff that doesn't really change. We're going to give Beeslo some recommendations about REALLY stand out titles as opposed to "It's ok." stuff like... Avengers for example. I'm talking stuff that makes us go "Holy shit, this is Comic of the Month."
That being said, I'm not bailing on DC comics at all, I think Beeslo was just trying to say I read more Marvel, but honestly I think I read a good chunk of Indy & DC comics too.
_________________ Listen to YIBR... I'm listening to it now... and it's not completely horrible... - (Not So) Jolly Roger
Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:22 am
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:33 pm Posts: 4103 Location: East Rutherford, NJ
Even though Beeslo labeled me the "DC" guy, I read everything. Yes, out of the 3 of us I read the most variety of DC but I also read a shit ton of Marvel. This will never change, yeah in the last issue we said that we basically thought Fear Itself mostly sucked, but I am still reading just as many Marvel titles as ever. A lot of other stuff has shadowed that for discussion yet, but I'm sure as events die down there will be a lot more to discuss in the coming months.
Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Don't touch me, old man! I don't know where you've been.
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:33 pm Posts: 1903 Location: Sweden
I totally sympathize with Beeslo. I started out reading 90% Marvel and 10% Others (Mostly DC). After all the events I just got bored with it. These days I mostly read Image and Vertigo books since their writers have total control of what happens with their characters. If Spiderman constantly throws himself into life threatening situations but you as a reader know they'll never kill him (at least not without it being in bold letters on the cover of the issue), then where's the suspense?
Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:28 pm
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:33 pm Posts: 4103 Location: East Rutherford, NJ
Colonel Panic wrote:
I totally sympathize with Beeslo. I started out reading 90% Marvel and 10% Others (Mostly DC). After all the events I just got bored with it. These days I mostly read Image and Vertigo books since their writers have total control of what happens with their characters. If Spiderman constantly throws himself into life threatening situations but you as a reader know they'll never kill him (at least not without it being in bold letters on the cover of the issue), then where's the suspense?
I mean, I can understand where anyone would be coming from in that respect, but for myself I guess I read for another reason. Yeah, it's very exciting when creators come together to shake things up and pull out epic stories sprawling the entire universe where the fate of the world is decided, but that just isn't the only reason I read superhero books.
I think a lot of the reason I read superhero books is because of a combination of love of the characters, familiarity, and good stories. It doesn't have to be an event for me to love a superhero story. Lives don't always have to be on the line. The final outcome/payoff has really never been what I'm all about (I still like the show Lost for instance, even though many people say the ending ruins it, I just don't work that way) I care about the journey more than anything, if the story was fun and held my interest, I will keep reading.
I have more loyalty to characters than writers/artists. Not that writers/artists don't matter because of course they do, but it takes a lot for me to stop reading books with characters who mean a lot to be just because of someone who I don't particularly like writing/drawing the book. There have been instances where I've dropped something like Justice League because of this, but it's not something I enjoy doing. I love when a great writer/artist combo happens and makes a book great like anyone, but I guess like I've said to Link about the same matter before, I guess I have more of a sports fan mentality when it comes to comic books, superhero comics in particular.
Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:46 pm
Don't touch me, old man! I don't know where you've been.
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:33 pm Posts: 1903 Location: Sweden
I love allot of Marvel's and DC's characters too (especially Marvel's). And I still read some Marvel and DC for many of the reasons you gave.
While I do think a real feeling of suspense in an action driven comic is important, I think what Im really looking for is more creative control for the writers. I wish they could go back to writing every character within their own universe, and let crossovers be something special. For example that way JMS can write his Thor story without having to quickly wrap it up before it even starts to make time for Siege, go into a rampaging hissy fit and quit.
Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:34 pm
Beware my power... Green Lantern's light!
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:33 pm Posts: 4103 Location: East Rutherford, NJ
I see what you're saying, but I also really love the interaction between the characters in the universe and feel like that is a pretty big draw to me. I liked how for a lot of the time between Civil War and Siege how interactive the Marvel universe was feeling. I really enjoyed how if something happened in Avengers it would carry over to Iron Man's book and that it mattered. A criticism I've had in the past about Marvel vs DC is that level of connectivity and how DC feels so much more disjointed unless Johns, Rucka, etc were handling writing duties. Then at least the things they were writing/connecting felt right.
I think that JMS should know all about editorial mandates and really had no reason to have a hissy fit. He's been part of the comic book industry long enough to know the structure and the ins and outs of how the writers/editors collaborate with each other to pull out the "I didn't know" card. This happened literally right after One More Day too. Also, that in part is the fault of JMS for being notoriously late with his scripts and delaying the book numerous times.
Post subject: Re: Issue #62: WWP pt 6 - James Robinson vs Jeph Loeb
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:25 am
Don't touch me, old man! I don't know where you've been.
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:33 pm Posts: 1903 Location: Sweden
Marvel does a great job crossing over characters, making it all feel like a huge vast universe. The thing that in the end bothered me to much about the events were that they were "EVENTS". I would've rather seen team-ups against everyday villains. I find that those stories are the most enjoyable ones. The big events don't work since they're not willing to commit to them. Since they're at the end of the day more or less back to the status quo (Goliath doesn't count). IMO House of M was the last event that really shook things up. But then again, that was 95% an X-Men event so not really a crossover per se.
I guess what Im getting at is, while Im reading the events Im enjoying the crossover stuff. But it's the ending the endings that kill it for me.
Yeah, JMS acted like a total dick, no a back of dicks, but in a weird way I sort of end up defending him more often than I should. I think I just like his stuff so much. I wish they would've let him do his own thing with Thor.
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