Smash Bros Argument - Rule #1: Don't talk about this thread

gasline09 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:56 pm

Just because it's not as serious as Street Fighter or MvC doesn't mean it's not a fighting game... :fail:

Plus, calling MvC "serious" is completely ridiculous. That game is even more ridiculous than Smash Bros.

In Smash Bros, you fight in a side perspective on an arena against other human players or computer controlled players. HoW IS tHAt NoT A FigHtnG GaMe???!

:rabbid:

oneshotfinch · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:26 pm

Link wrote:

oneshotfinch wrote:

Son...

Dad...

Ok, I had a good lol at this.

Max wrote:

Just because it's not as serious as Street Fighter or MvC doesn't mean it's not a fighting game... :fail:

Plus, calling MvC "serious" is completely ridiculous. That game is even more ridiculous than Smash Bros.

In Smash Bros, you fight in a side perspective on an arena against other human players or computer controlled players. HoW IS tHAt NoT A FigHtnG GaMe???!

:rabbid:

The line is really blurry to be honest. Is Fallout 3 an FPS? Is Mario Kart a racing game? Is Mass Effect 2 a third person shooter?

Untitledproject · **Joined:** Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:32 pm **Posts:** 10

Link wrote:

Due to all the folks I've never seen. I assume somebody linked to this thread from Pwnshop in order to get things riled up.

Untitledproject wrote:

No no it's not.

It's a party game which is how it should be viewed as. Nothing serious on the level of MvC2 or 3rd Strike.

I wouldn't say that MvC2 is "serious" in any level. If I remember right that game suffers from a number of imbalances (Cable.) I'd have to say that Smash Brothers can be played seriously and people can learn new things about the game to this day, IE. Wave Dashing & Wobble were not in the intended move sets from Nintendo but hardcore players figured that stuff out. The conventions I've been to have equal amount of participation of the 250+ for Smash Brothers. It's outside the box, but at it's heart it's a fighting game just like Onimusha Blade Warriors is a fighting game and/or "brawler" if you'd rather call it that.

It's like saying Mario Kart isn't a racing game, but instead a Party game. Just because it's played at parties and with large groups of people doesn't mean it's not part of it's main genre category.

MvC2 is broken. Everyone knows that but it's the amount of skill that makes it playable. You can't just go into the Magneto infinite or learn how to AHVB with Cable day one. Wavedashing and wobbling were discovered but it was never intended to be a fighter imo. Plus if you get punished by an infinite I'd just say you were blocking wrong or need to learn how to block better. Nothing's gonna change or slow down for you :-D

But yeah even the creator said himself it was never intended as a serious fighter. But then again most games aren't. I'm just part of the small minority who just enjoys the traditional fighting game : P

gasline09 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:57 pm

oneshotfinch wrote:

The line is really blurry to be honest. Is Fallout 3 an FPS? Is Mario Kart a racing game? Is Mass Effect 2 a third person shooter?

Actually yes.

Fallout 3 is a FPS because you shoot with guns in a first person perspective. Mario Kart is a racing game because you are doing what else, racing and Mass Effect 2 is a third person shooter because again, you are in third person and you shoot with a gun.

The line is considered to be blurry because people tend to view it more as a party game but by definition, it is in fact a fighting game, plain and simple.

:-)

oneshotfinch · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:58 pm

But you can change to a third person perspective in Fallout 3.

gasline09 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:05 pm

oneshotfinch wrote:

But you can change to a third person perspective in Fallout 3.

You sure can.

It's an FPS and third person shooter now isn't that cool?

:-)

But let's be honest, no one plays in third person perspective with that game (or at least no one I know).

oneshotfinch · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:15 pm

So it's a third person shooter. And a first person shooter. And an RPG. And an open world game. If you say that Fallout 3 is all of those things then surely you can admit to Smash to being both a fighting and a party game.

Young_Yet_Retro · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:22 pm

oneshotfinch wrote:

So it's a third person shooter. And a first person shooter. And an RPG. And an open world game. If you say that Fallout 3 is all of those things then surely you can admit to Smash to being both a fighting and a party game.

Yes, but people like to exclude its fighting game status.

OD · **Joined:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:38 am **Posts:** 681

Max wrote:

Fallout 3 is a FPS because you shoot with guns in a first person perspective.

Then I guess we can call Metal Gear Solid an FPS too huh? Because you shoot guns in a first person perspective too. Fo3 can but doesn't have to be played as an FPS. If you ask me, Fo3 and Vegas are Action\RPG's.

Sure the majority plays it in the standard FPS mode, but that's no different from playing Smash Bros. without items compared to people who do. It's all built into the game for it.

gasline09 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:57 pm

oneshotfinch wrote:

So it's a third person shooter. And a first person shooter. And an RPG. And an open world game. If you say that Fallout 3 is all of those things then surely you can admit to Smash to being both a fighting and a party game.

I love how we went from Smash Bros being a fighting game to Fallout 3.

Of course a game can belong to more than one genre. I said from the very beginning that Smash Bros is a fighting game as well as a party game. My whole point was that Smash Bros can be considered a fighting game just the same as Street Fighter or Marvel vs Capcom.

OD wrote:

Max wrote:

Fallout 3 is a FPS because you shoot with guns in a first person perspective.

Then I guess we can call Metal Gear Solid an FPS too huh? Because you shoot guns in a first person perspective too. Fo3 can but doesn't have to be played as an FPS. If you ask me, Fo3 and Vegas are Action\RPG's.

Sure the majority plays it in the standard FPS mode, but that's no different from playing Smash Bros. without items compared to people who do. It's all built into the game for it.

games
can
be
multiple
genres

Darkseid · **Joined:** Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:43 pm **Posts:** 2555

Soul Eater is an anime and a shump.

Ehsan · **Posted:** Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:45 pm

In my opinion, Smash Bros is a fighting game, because you use characters in a field of competition fighting to the death. However, it's not a traditional fighting game, like games like Power Stone.

Koari · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:26 am

Max wrote:

I love how we went from Smash Bros being a fighting game to Fallout 3.

Like how we went from Dead Space 2 to Bioshock :rabbid:

Link · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:46 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Brothers

It's listed as a fighting game. BOOYAH! Wikipedia speaks truth!

Although funny enough it's in a list of "party" games on Wikipedia, which seem so horribly disconnected with each other it's not even funny.

Spoiler

According to this, DDR is a party game, and sure while it may be fun to do at parties and have people watch you play and challenge each other, it doesn't necessarily make it part of the party game genre.

My definition for a "party game" has always been something that consists of a lot of mini-games, perhaps similar to a board game or game show, keeps track of scores, perhaps involves answering trivia, etc.

Koari · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:01 am

Link wrote:

My definition for a "party game" has always been something that consists of a lot of mini-games, perhaps similar to a board game or game show, keeps track of scores, perhaps involves answering trivia, etc.

That is where I'm gonna have to disagree with you, since apparently you've been corrupted for too long by the Wii. Party games are games that have certain features and gameplay mechanics that are meant to be played by as many people as possible in a local environment, and also look and feel fun. While they could include mini games and trivia, they can also be racing, sports, shooting, and fighting.

By that definition alone, I could include games like Goldeneye, Halo, Crazy Taxi, Madden and Tekken (some of the most requested games I've ever received).

Link · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:59 am

Koari wrote:

Party games are games that have certain features and gameplay mechanics that are meant to be played by as many people as possible in a local environment, and also look and feel fun.

While I agree with you there, the Party Game genre itself applies most specifically to:

"a collection of simple minigames, designed to be intuitive and easy to control"

Yes, Crazy Taxi, Tekken, Madden, and such can be considered party games but are part of a LARGER genre label such as "Racing, Fighting, & Sports" in the above examples. Mario Party, Carnival Games, Raving Rabbids, Sonic Shuffle, etc. are all PARTY GAMES by Genre.

The argument here is simply, while Smash Brothers can be a party game, it is no different than Marvel vs. Capcom 2 being a party game. They are both part of a larger genre called "Fighting Game".

EDIT: As a side-note, this reminds me of the battles about Zelda being an RPG or not. Eventually it was labeled as an "Action-Adventure" series, but will occasionally bleed into the RPG category for video game awards, etc.

oneshotfinch · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:40 pm

Oh god we've gotten to the wikipedia stage of the debate :rabbid:

LoganVDH · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:50 pm

oneshotfinch wrote:

Oh god we've gotten to the wikipedia stage of the debate :rabbid:

Next comes the name calling and then teh lock.

gasline09 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:59 pm

Koari wrote:

Link wrote:

My definition for a "party game" has always been something that consists of a lot of mini-games, perhaps similar to a board game or game show, keeps track of scores, perhaps involves answering trivia, etc.

That is where I'm gonna have to disagree with you, since apparently you've been corrupted for too long by the Wii. Party games are games that have certain features and gameplay mechanics that are meant to be played by as many people as possible in a local environment, and also look and feel fun. While they could include mini games and trivia, they can also be racing, sports, shooting, and fighting.

By that definition alone, I could include games like Goldeneye, Halo, Crazy Taxi, Madden and Tekken (some of the most requested games I've ever received).

That's why Link's definition is better.

Link · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:32 pm

oneshotfinch wrote:

Oh god we've gotten to the wikipedia stage of the debate :rabbid:

I wouldn't even call it much of a debate as a whole. I think it's more of people disliking that Smash Brothers IS considered a Fighting Game. My argument is more built around the basis of the "genre" of what the game is, and it's very difficult to argue towards the "Party Game" aspect of the game, when it shares absolutely nothing in common with most if not all party games.

EDIT: I mean, the largest case against Smash not being a Fighting game so far was someone saying it wasn't as "serious" as the other games.

Smash Bros Argument - Rule #1: Don't talk about this thread

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