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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Yes, it is a fighting game. Yes, I can still have fun with it, even if its by myself, for more than a few weeks. Yes, I do think it takes skill, but but there's always a bit of luck.

No, it is not the most unusual fighting game I've ever played. That spot id reserved for Naruto battle 4


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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:12 pm 
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It's not a traditional fighting game. But if the objective of the game is some form of arena tournament fighting, then yeah. It's a fighting game. The setting is what defines the genre. Not the way its played.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Colonel Panic wrote:
It's not a traditional fighting game. But if the objective of the game is some form of arena tournament fighting, then yeah. It's a fighting game. The setting is what defines the genre. Not the way its played.


Exactly. I'm sure there are folks who say Bushido Blade or even Tobal isn't a fighting game, but it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Yes, the same way I consider Mario Kart a racing game.

Also, Wikipedia says it's a fighting game therefore it must be true.

I should post this at TPS.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Link wrote:
I lean towards the "Fighting game" category. Anybody who says otherwise is an elitist jackass who ejaculates every time a company vs. company game comes out. Fighting games, as a whole, are ultimately boring and uninspired. Occasionally they will try to break the mold, and that's awesome. Shit unfortunately never sticks. 1v1 combat against an AI or a Human is only fun for so long. The only reason combos and other advanced crazy shit exist in fighting games is because people tried to milk that shit for all it was worth back in the day. There was very little depth to the games overall, no real plots or story or experience points or anything at all to give you an involved experience. You mashed buttons and your opponent would usually die as long as you knew how to mash the right buttons.

My gut instinct is that MvC3 will be a pile of suck. I'm still buying it, and I expect to have fun, but then 1 week later I'll be like "Why'd I waste money on this?" There's ultimately little reason to pay attention to fighting games nowadays, even with online play. Unless you want to join the elitist supreme group mentioned above, you really only have one option:

- Play the game for a week or two until you get bored of single player, and then bust the game out at parties and other occasions with friends where everyone is bored and trying to figure out something to do.


goddamn

I'm not even gonna bother to give a serious reply to this thread after reading this mess

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:28 am 
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It's definitely a fighting game, but also a fusion of a party game.

The thing that makes SSB more fun than most fighting games is simply how easy it is to learn and play with friends and other people. The whole nature of the game makes it easy to play and win, which makes it a perfect game for gatherings. It's also a ton of fun.

And if you really suck, you can always play as Kirby and inhale people and jump off and float away at the last second. :-D

I also have to disagree on the un-replayability of different fighters. I'm a casual fighting fan, but I had MvC 2 for over a year and Street Fighter II on the SNES for 3 years, yet I always come back to them for a quick 10 minute playthrough, even after playing them for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:11 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:59 am 
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SSB is a fighting game. An unorthodox one geared more towards a casual crowd(not that that's a bad thing), but a fighter none the less.

Link wrote:
Fighting games, as a whole, are ultimately boring and uninspired.


I understand if you find them boring but that argument has been apllied to every game genre be it FPS, platformer, RTS, sandbox etc. If you're not a fan that's cool, just say so. The internet is already cluttered with enough unfounded broad generalizations.


Link wrote:


My gut instinct is that MvC3 will be a pile of suck. I'm still buying it, and I expect to have fun, but then 1 week later I'll be like "Why'd I waste money on this?" There's ultimately little reason to pay attention to fighting games nowadays, even with online play. Unless you want to join the elitist supreme group mentioned above, you really only have one option:

- Play the game for a week or two until you get bored of single player, and then bust the game out at parties and other occasions with friends where everyone is bored and trying to figure out something to do.


If that's the case why not just save yourself some money and rent it? Or better yet wait and see if a friend buys it and make a weekend out of it? There are plenty of people who really love fighting games and play them for several months/years past their launch. I always liked them simply because its one of the few genres that I can play it at anytime and get right back into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Sheep Cannon wrote:
Link wrote:
Fighting games, as a whole, are ultimately boring and uninspired.


I understand if you find them boring but that argument has been apllied to every game genre be it FPS, platformer, RTS, sandbox etc. If you're not a fan that's cool, just say so. The internet is already cluttered with enough unfounded broad generalizations.


I'm just saying that nobody attempts to think outside the box. Add a half decent plot to single player (a few games have tried, like Guilty Gear, Blazblue, and Project Justice for example.) I enjoy fighting games, but nowadays they need to have more substance than Street Fighter II on the Genesis/SNES, y'know?

As a side note, I bought MvC3 'cuz I had like a 50% off coupon and then some 'cuz of some delay from Amazon for my Dead Rising 2 avatar outfit that I ended up selling to Dylan Toomey anyways, I'm paying like 20 bucks for the game off Amazon.


Sollah wrote:
goddamn

I'm not even gonna bother to give a serious reply to this thread after reading this mess


I'll be honest, a lot of that was bottled up rage at the elitists who always give people a hard time about saying Smash is a fighting game. IE. "You're a scrub, blah blah blah, etc."

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Link wrote:
Sollah wrote:
goddamn

I'm not even gonna bother to give a serious reply to this thread after reading this mess


I'll be honest, a lot of that was bottled up rage at the elitists who always give people a hard time about saying Smash is a fighting game. IE. "You're a scrub, blah blah blah, etc."

I know what you mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Darkseid wrote:
Link wrote:
Sollah wrote:
goddamn

I'm not even gonna bother to give a serious reply to this thread after reading this mess


I'll be honest, a lot of that was bottled up rage at the elitists who always give people a hard time about saying Smash is a fighting game. IE. "You're a scrub, blah blah blah, etc."

I know what you mean.


Yeah, the reason why the Fighting Thread at TPS was voted worst thread


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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Link wrote:
Sollah wrote:
goddamn

I'm not even gonna bother to give a serious reply to this thread after reading this mess


I'll be honest, a lot of that was bottled up rage at the elitists who always give people a hard time about saying Smash is a fighting game. IE. "You're a scrub, blah blah blah, etc."


it doesn't even matter whether smash games are fighting games or not, your post just shows how ignorant you are when it comes to the genre and frankly I don't think it's worth the effort to try and argue that you're both wrong and expecting something else from it.

unless you made it just to raise the ire of fighting game fans in general. in which case, congratulations, you've succeeded.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Sollah I honestly think that's the point of the entire thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:11 pm 
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Sollah wrote:
it doesn't even matter whether smash games are fighting games or not, your post just shows how ignorant you are when it comes to the genre and frankly I don't think it's worth the effort to try and argue that you're both wrong and expecting something else from it.

unless you made it just to raise the ire of fighting game fans in general. in which case, congratulations, you've succeeded.


oneshotfinch wrote:
Sollah I honestly think that's the point of the entire thread.


Not really. The topic was made because this is always a hot topic that has a lot of discussion for boths side. If I'm ignorant, please enlighten me. Seriously. I realize my original post came off pretty harsh because I just let out a torrent of nerd rage venting. Those comments were directed at folks (nobody here) who've given me a large amount of shit/insults due to claiming Smash is a fighting game. I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect this topic to be heated, but I wasn't creating it to intentionally piss people off and shit on people's parades or tell them that their opinion is wrong. So, yeah my initial post was pretty lame-ass of me and I apologize.

I've tried to understand the genre as a whole, and it's definitely not one of those things that's for me. Then again, most competitive multiplayer is not my cup of tea, which is most likely why I'm not a huge fan of the genre (but still a casual fan mind you.)

I've been a big time proponent of the fact that fighting games need to evolve past their multiplayer roots (hey if single player games need to have tacked on Multiplayer or decent multiplayer, Multiplayer games should do the reverse.) I'm in it for the single player experience, and that's not because I'm terrible at them and think they're stupid, etc. It's because I don't feel the desire to practice at the genre/games in order to play on a competitive level. With Super Smash Brothers, that happened as a natural evolution due to it's simplicity, there wasn't any "down, down-forward, forward, high punch" stuff involved, and thus why it quickly became my favorite game in the genre and/or hybrid-genre. But back to the point, I'm always looking for a satisfying single player experience in a fighting game and few have provided it.

My comments about the genre's early years are something I assume to be true, as I recall reading somewhere (great way to site my sources I know) that Street Fighter or the earlier Street Fighter II weren't built to be balanced or even have a "combo" system and it was something that the players sort of created on their own that Capcom eventually implemented into the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:14 pm 
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Most fans of fighting games are elitist dickbags that think that Smash Bros isn't a fighting game even though it clearly is. For some reason fans of the PS3 and fighting games seem to be the most unstable and batshit insane group of people on the internet. Okay well maybe that's too much but they definitely make a habit of trying to prove something else is sucky (or non existent) in an effort to make whatever it is they like look good.

Anyone with a dismissive or negative attitude towards these groups of people are most like well justified as they have gotten an earful as to why Smash Bros isn't a fighting game or why the PS3 is the best console in this generation.

I think by now we all pretty much agree that Smash Bros is a fighting game and that a lot of developers should think outside the box when it comes to making fighting games.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:05 am 
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oneshotfinch wrote:
Sollah I honestly think that's the point of the entire thread.


Nail in the head


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 Post subject: Re: Is Smash Brothers a Fighting Game?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:29 am 
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Link wrote:

I've tried to understand the genre as a whole, and it's definitely not one of those things that's for me. Then again, most competitive multiplayer is not my cup of tea, which is most likely why I'm not a huge fan of the genre (but still a casual fan mind you.)

I've been a big time proponent of the fact that fighting games need to evolve past their multiplayer roots (hey if single player games need to have tacked on Multiplayer or decent multiplayer, Multiplayer games should do the reverse.) I'm in it for the single player experience, and that's not because I'm terrible at them and think they're stupid, etc. It's because I don't feel the desire to practice at the genre/games in order to play on a competitive level. With Super Smash Brothers, that happened as a natural evolution due to it's simplicity, there wasn't any "down, down-forward, forward, high punch" stuff involved, and thus why it quickly became my favorite game in the genre and/or hybrid-genre. But back to the point, I'm always looking for a satisfying single player experience in a fighting game and few have provided it.

My comments about the genre's early years are something I assume to be true, as I recall reading somewhere (great way to site my sources I know) that Street Fighter or the earlier Street Fighter II weren't built to be balanced or even have a "combo" system and it was something that the players sort of created on their own that Capcom eventually implemented into the series.


the core of the depth of most fighting games come not from the game modes, but from the fighting engine itself. there are some games with a decent single player mode in them, but ultimately most companies know that the audience that they're going for, and thus the audience most likely to buy their games, is in it for the multiplayer. the genre as a whole does not need to "evolve", at least in the way you think it should. it'd be nice if a decent single player mode became standard for all fighting games, but honestly if time and resources were better spent on refining characters, combos, and such to make the game more balanced then that's the direction they should go.

also I don't know about the Street Fighter II trivia, but it's fairly obvious that Capcom either wanted a balanced game in the first place or quickly caught on to what the players want. each new edition of Street Fighter II weren't just money grabs or just added new characters, they were filled with subtle improvements over the last game. each character became more and more refined with each new version in an attempt to make the game more balanced. they basically giant patches.

in the end fighting games have a lot more depth then you perceive them to be. they just don't seem to have what you're looking for.


as a side note: most developers that tack on or add multiplayer to their single player games do it because they think the audience they're going for wants that or they want to appeal to a wider audience. that doesn't mean every single player does that though, or should be required to.

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